Curse

countesscorpula · Aug 14, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

2: ANet repeatedly has assured players in the past that duping items was impossible because the information was all server side (thus assuaging some of the suspicion that would normally arise in the player's mind when being offered multiple armbraces)

3: ANet recently made DoA easier to access (and advertised this quite efficiently) leading to the reasonable assumption that armbraces and gemsets would fall in price quite rapidly.

4: I had no real idea myself how much an armbrace was worth in this game until this issue - many other players surely are in the same boat.

I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Swift on these points.

On duping:
I check out these forums at least once a day (though I've been trying to scale back). Over the past few months I saw a few threads about "scammers" who were offering to "dupe" things for people in one of the desert missions. I recognized this from earlier readings in "common scams", as posted here on guru and on the old wiki. Many of the people here said things like, "you can't dupe in GW... everyone knows that... tell us something we don't know."

Well, it would seem it was possible... and most of the people who "knew it all" didn't know. They, and I, dismissed such things as newbies to the game uncovering scams long forgotten (almost) by the rest of us.

On Value of items:
I don't do much trading these days, and I've only once traded something worth more than 100k. So that something that is stackable is worth more than 10k... even 20k as an individual item would have been news to me. I'm just not that well versed in the minutia of GW mercantile (I spend more time playing the game than running auctions, and I have little interest in spamming WTS/WTB for hours on end). If a guildie were to say, "Hey, I got some armbraces for cheap, want some?" I'd probably say sure, and chalk it up to DoA becoming easier with the recent update... after I remembered what an armbrace was, and factored in that the prices of ecto and other matts have plummetted recently. I guess I'm kind of lucky that I don't have any armbraces in my inventory. Especially considering I did have to reconnect twice this weekend - once while vanquishing with guildies, and another time while puttering on another toon.

So from my point of view, I hope the only non-dupers getting banned are those with obsene amounts of armbraces/ectos/other-duped-valueable-items. If I hadn't seen this thread (and not all players frequent forums), I would not have had the tiniest suspiscions about duped items offered in trade. After all... duping in GW is impossible, right?

Lord Feathers · Aug 14, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Oh, for goodness sake, people, stop the "business analysis," ok?

It is in our best interests to tell the truth.
It is not in our best interests to try to "spin" anything.
We know how many were banned, and we know why they were banned, and we're not exactly being quiet about this and trying to tamp down the discussion. In fact, if you think we're trying to avoid the topic, I'm more than happy to increase the volume of the discussion: If you break the UA, if you take advantage of an exploit, if you do something that damages the game, you will suffer serious consequences.

Can it be any clearer?

Let me know and I'll try to make it so.

I'm loving this, aside from reading through all the whinning, nuke those responsible ! They found the problem and are fixing it. Anyone here ever play any games that allow this kind of behavior ? Oh wait that's BNET not ANET ! Go get em Gaile !

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Aug 14, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

This is for those who purchased a single Armbrace. You most likely will not get banned. For those who missed it read GAILE's post on pg 3! Better yet a mod should sticky it to pg 1.

Quote:

The issue of someone selling a single ambrace to another innocent person, later on, is more complicated. The item was duped, but the buyer may not have been -- probably was not -- aware that he/she was buying a duped item. So, it's a matter of degree, intention, and knowledge. Do we ban the seller, with multiple stacks of 250 armbraces in inventory (or who handed off stacks to friends and guildies)? Yes! Do we ban the player who makes the one-off purchase -- an armbrace here, a couple of duped ectos there? It's not likely that we will.

And I'm sorry but no one trades for rare mini-pets or anything rare with out knowing the general price range of what you are selling and more importantly, what you are buying. That excuse is complete BS. You can maybe use the excuse, "It was a great deal and I thought the other guy was a moron for making the trade" but not "I did not know that an Armbrace was worth that much". Come on!...and if you got stacks from your guildy you had to of known something was up. As a Guild leader, I would have kicked he/she from the guild and reported em myself!

Keep up the GREAT job Anet!

MorpheusDV · Aug 14, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowofskip

Love it. Ban them all for the sake of this game.
love watching dupers like [ohno] cry now

[OhNo] is a guild formed from Myspace that does everything PvE - DoA, Hard Mode, Farming, and much more.

Your accusations for us duping are baseless, making them null and void.

If you ever were in our guild, you would love us, as we're a great bunch of people, but blanket statements that you make piss me off.

I'm not crying, but it pisses me off that people in our guild, who have gotten titles recently such as Legendary Guardian, are banned because ArenaNet fails at banning.

Psuedo Halgoen · Aug 14, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by S W O R d

snip

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you/your in the same guild as Mistele and chunky, or at least that's what it says in your details under S W O R d.
Here's how I see it, either the people who started the duplication glitch are in that guild or some members (or even just chunky) have close ties to those that started/used the glitch.

Anet would have logs of anyone receiving and using these duped armbraces. Chances are that your son had some in his inventory, and probably the reason why he was banned.

Also earlier in this thread or was it the other one, I can't remember, but Gaile Grey the Arena Net CR/PR has said that the bans were greater than 10, your son is just one of many.

Patrick Smit · Aug 14, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What "mass banning" are you describing? The numbers being mentioned in this thread are in the single digits. There has been no mass ban. Period.

Here is what we've done:

We've found the people who duplicated items. Their numbers were really quite small. We banned them.
We found the people to whom the duplicated items were given in large quantities. Their numbers were somewhat larger, but again, relatively few. We banned them.
We are examining records to see how far this extends. We may be banning more in the coming days, but we will most likely choose to not ban more than we will choose to ban. The decision is ours and will be based on a lot of factors, principal being whether it's reasonable to assume that the player knew he/she was getting ill-gotten goods.

We are quite sure that those players getting stacks and stacks of the most valuable item in the game realized that this largesse was not the result of the kind and generous spirit of a guild mate or friend. We're quite sure that those getting offers of 5 gazillion armbraces for item sales knew that something was wrong, and yet they made the sale anyway. It's obvious that certain players knew about the exploit, or suspected there was one. It's pretty easy to establish who such players were.

Did you think we'd never notice? Of course we noticed! Our recordkeeping is exceptionally detailed. You can't move a piece of gold from one bag to another without us knowing it. And as a result, those at the center of abusing this exploit were banned. That is as it should be.

The issue of someone selling a single ambrace to another innocent person, later on, is more complicated. The item was duped, but the buyer may not have been -- probably was not -- aware that he/she was buying a duped item. So, it's a matter of degree, intention, and knowledge. Do we ban the seller, with multiple stacks of 250 armbraces in inventory (or who handed off stacks to friends and guildies)? Yes! Do we ban the player who makes the one-off purchase -- an armbrace here, a couple of duped ectos there? It's not likely that we will.

Duplicating items is disallowed by the User Agreement under which each player is permitted to play Guild Wars. Getting stacks and stacks of free items -- or receiving ridiculous numbers of items for a sale -- must have pinged peoples' radars that "Hey, this can't be legit!" Just as receiving stolen property is a crime in the real world, this sort of act is disallowed in our game, and results in a ban.

Those who made an innocent purchase have very little to worry about. The accounts of those who were banned were examined with care and consideration, using extensive research to assure that the appropriate action was taken. It is highly unlikely that these players can successfully appeal their banning.

And if you're aware of someone who was involved, I invite you to report that player, for the good of the game.

QFT,

"If you see a pile of shit, you are not gonna step into it, even when glittering like golden"

If you obviously get involved in "fencing" you can expect to be punished.The state will also not except the excuse: But i didn't know these 600 million euro I received from my good friend were illegally obtained.

Good action Anet, In this way innocents will not be punished

Westofeden · Aug 14, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowofskip

Love it. Ban them all for the sake of this game.
love watching dupers like [ohno] cry now

Wow, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you dude. I love how you jump all over our guild because we came in wondering what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is going on just like everyone else. Dumb piece of shit.

Smoczek_bagus · Aug 14, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

GG bout taking care of ambrace dupes...

but what about duped kanaxais/pandas/ghostly heroes/stygian reavers/crystalline swords etc... if 1 was traded for 1750 ambraces so what bout ppl who got few of them popped up suddenly in inventory....

I n d e r v i d j o o u l · Aug 14, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowofskip

Love it. Ban them all for the sake of this game.
love watching dupers like [ohno] cry now

We have 39 Members and you're going to say ALL of us are dupers? I think you should be banned for being so god damn ignorant.

What about all the bots at Bergen Hot Springs?! They dont do ANYTHING about that, and that has been going on ever since the game first started.. and now they're going to penalize loyal players, who have spent countless hours, working hard on their characters with nothing to base anything on.

I had a friend in the guild Shadows Rising [Rise] who was Perma-banned for " botting " and if anyone knew this guy they'd KNOW of ALL people in the game, this guy wouldn't know anything when it came to botting, hes pretty computer illiterate.

However A-net was saying "We have thoroughly investigated the situation, and have come to the conclusion that you have been botting" etc... We know for a fact he doesn't bot, knows nothing about bots, yet they say their thorough investigation allowed them to come to that conclusion. They had absolutely NO PROOF that he was using bots, its just ridiculous... Its OBVIOUS they don't do jack shit to investigate for they penalized a loyal player and have nothing to base their alligations on. I guess if A-net is really focused on losing money and pissing a lot of people off... they've accomplished their goal.

Same goes for duping... they basically don't know what the hell they're going to do.. and instead of setting out a plan to settle the situation, they're just reacting and doing whatever comes to mind first. It really worries me knowing that people who are working for A-net don't need any experience in their field what-so-ever. Its more evident now than ever what happens when you hire morons.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l213/DieMaschine6/Random/AnetFullOfShit.jpg"

NekoZ · Aug 14, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

And to add on to above, not one of us had armbraces. Half haven't even seen one in game lol. (5 got banned)

Westofeden · Aug 14, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by I n d e r v i d j o o u l

We have 39 Members and you're going to say ALL of us are dupers? I think you should be banned for being so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ignorant.

Fixed

Rayne Despair · Aug 14, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Uhhh yea i dream of armbraces but never obtained one. i myself didn't get banned but my dear friends did... and i can say for myself i know their not dupers... come to think of it our guild is small but a lot of us are always on trying to max out things. for example, most recent was legendary guardian.

Rayne Despair · Aug 14, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

and Leviathan Mara agrees.

NoXiFy · Aug 14, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I love Gail. She's on my side. Ban everyone that has more than 1 armbrace, and anyone that has more than 200ecto.

acidic · Aug 14, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

they should lose all the duped item they traded for or take the ban.

I have no sympathy for Darwin award candidates

Kashrlyyk · Aug 14, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

....We are quite sure that those players getting stacks and stacks of the most valuable item in the game realized that this largesse was not the result of the kind and generous spirit of a guild mate or friend. We're quite sure that those getting offers of 5 gazillion armbraces for item sales knew that something was wrong, and yet they made the sale anyway. It's obvious that certain players knew about the exploit, or suspected there was one. It's pretty easy to establish who such players were.

"quite sure"???? "Obvious"???? Proof it or leave them alone!!! And send them your proof. Even in america "In dubio pro reo" is used.

Do you actually think that there aren´t people that just think: "Man, am I lucky to get such an offer, or what?" Especially when you have one of those very, very rare Minipets. And with the monuments in GWEN, the value of Minipets might actually rise.

Or: You come back to GW after a 6 months break, you see the offer and sell. Who knows what happened in 6 months.

Are you still "quite sure"???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

Really, Miss Gray?

I would buy this except for a couple of things

1: You are exaggerating - the game does not go to 5 gazillion in anything

2: ANet repeatedly has assured players in the past that duping items was impossible because the information was all server side (thus assuaging some of the suspicion that would normally arise in the player's mind when being offered multiple armbraces)

3: ANet recently made DoA easier to access (and advertised this quite efficiently) leading to the reasonable assumption that armbraces and gemsets would fall in price quite rapidly.

4: I had no real idea myself how much an armbrace was worth in this game until this issue - many other players surely are in the same boat. Had I been offered one for 50k or even as a gift I would have known I was getting a good deal but I never would have realized how much of a good deal. If I had a rare mini and was offered a 1000 armbraces for it, I probably would not have realized the discrepancy. I collect certain things and know the price for them but anything else would simply leave me in the dark.

5: Posts about being offered many armbraces for rare minis were started some time ago from what I understand and ANet did nothing. If you read the first few posts that alerted the community this week you will notice that many refused to believe there was a problem - ANet's lack of action lulled them into thinking everything was surely ok and other factors were responsible for the number of armbraces.

6: And finally - let's face it, this exploit has been around since December - and now that we look back was probably greatly responsible for the sharp drop in ecto prices. Yet NO ONE suspected anything other than deflation caused by hard mode and loot scaling. Why do you, then, expect people to see armbraces differently?

Yes, many are to blame - some may have suspected there was a problem - but given that ANet was responsible for a huge part of the problem I think you need to err strongly on the side of caution before claiming any person should have known there was a problem.

They are no more to blame than ANet - because ANet SHOULD HAVE SUSPECTED THERE WAS A PROBLEM LONG AGO!!!

Please do not say what others should have suspected when you must be painted with the same brush.

QFT. ANet is making it easy for themself.

828168 · Aug 14, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Great job Anet! The banning of dupers was done in a fast and timely manner. Keep up the good work and I'm hoping for more banning or fixing of the situation. I know you want to keep a lot of exploiters happy so they'll buy the expansion coming up. But for the sake of maintaining the integrity of the game, there needs to be more done. Any purchases of ambraces under 100k deserves to be looked into since it does exploit the game's duping and most people in the right mind won't sell a legitimate ambrace under that price. I'm sure those who bought under that price knowingly bought the ambrace(s) and knows the chances of it being legitimate are slim and none. Why not banned these people or convert these ambraces to glittering dust? Even if they were coverted to weapon, they still exploited the bug/glitch within the game and they knowingly did it so these weapon needs to be removed. Shouldn't these be looked at carefully and if the time coincides with the duping already being spread widely in game and on message boards warrants some kind of action to be taken? This will make people think twice about any future exploits.

Lord-UWR · Aug 14, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord High Pwner

This dilema has rasied a few questions about later aspects of the game where duping could be possible. If any mods or Gaile would like to hear me out on a possible dup scenario please pm me on guru.I dont want to elaborate and give any ideas to poss. dupers. But i would like to voice my concern and dont really know where to do so.

Great, if you actually prevent another mess up like this, you'll be my hero, as well as the whole community's. So here is how you can report your suspicions of further exploits.

Quoted from EULA directly:

You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via "Ask a Question" at http://support.guildwars.com.

Just send each possible bug in a separate email, as I'm sure you'll get much more attention that way, than if you send them all at once. Also notify Gaile of your support ticket number, so she can follow up on it directly, and bring it to the attention of the programmers.

Patrick Smit · Aug 14, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayne Despair

Uhhh yea i dream of armbraces but never obtained one. i myself didn't get banned but my dear friends did... and i can say for myself i know their not dupers... come to think of it our guild is small but a lot of us are always on trying to max out things. for example, most recent was legendary guardian.

so u get 1750 armbraces just falling out of the sky?

"Ich habe es nicht gewuBt"

Come on be realistic, miracles don't happen.

To people who say that prove is needed in law suits. This is not the case, if you obtained huge amounts of money you have to prove its origin, and thereby show it is legal.

Arkhar · Aug 14, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Based on how quickly Armbrace prices dropped and how nothing of value has ever changed so dramatically in price, I think it's safe to say that this was something new. So way to go nipping it in the bud Anet, and here's hoping the market takes the blow better than the Real-World economy is handling its problems right now, eh?